Menu
The Chia Plot
  • Blog
  • How-To
  • About
  • Contact
  • Security
  • Discord
The Chia Plot

Some hard truths about the Chia Windows client – and an idea to fix it

Posted on June 29, 2021June 29, 2021 by Chris Dupres

“I tell folks that a lot of people have lauded our GUI as the best in crypto and that may be true. That said, Bram and I consider it a piece of poo and is totally the minimum viable product we could ship!” This is the response I get from Gene Hoffman, President and COO of Chia Network, while chatting with him about their Windows client. I wouldn’t necessarily say its that bad, but the reason we are sitting down to chat is that there is a lot of room for improvement. I fully agree it looks great and is highly functional especially for less technically comfortable users. But that is the problem we are facing.

When Chia Network launched, less than 2 months ago let’s remember, there wasn’t a chance in the world they expected it to blow up like this. Most people would expect that the majority of serious farmers would be running this on Linux as a series of microservices each handling their specific task. And that is likely true, when you consider their proportion of netspace. However, there are also hundreds of thousands of Windows home PCs connected together in an open network and that is a huge accomplishment, from one perspective – but a huge risk from another.

I have conducted a pretty thorough review of the Chia Network windows client, and having spoken to Gene about what I have uncovered it comes as no surprise to them. The architecture of the client is a series of trade-offs between functionality and security. They know that python is potentially not the most performant option in all cases, but it does have a highly secure network front end. So they use it, because they can’t take other hardening options without too much sacrifice to the user experience.

First, the service deployment. Each of the Chia services runs as the local (usually administrative) user and has access to all the files available to every other service, including configuration and private keys. Also to the rest of the system. There is an obvious solution to this problem, but it will make running and managing the Windows client extremely difficult, especially for the novice users that cannot be discounted. When I suggested it to Gene he agreed it was the best solution, and a total non-starter as it would set the bar of entry too high for new users. I don’t love it, but he’s probably not wrong.

Another issue with how the services are deployed is that they are each running a Python3 instance that calls the rest of the code required to run the full_node, wallet, or farmer applications. Again, Python3 itself isn’t the issue, it is as secure as it gets for something of this nature. But it is a shell and with the correct exploit it can be a very permissive compromise. Which is why the user account that runs that Python shell should always be setup with the least permission security mode. It also requires opening the Windows Defender Firewall to the application rather than a specific set of ports.

The answer to both these issues is to run each service as its own user account with explicit permissions to exactly what they need in the chia-blockchain and .chia folders. This will mean that even if the full_node is compromised it won’t have access to the rest of the files or keys. But most importantly it won’t have full administrative access to the user account running the Chia application. This will also lead into my next suggestion:

Separate the GUI from the production services, either by running it as a webservice that talks to the other services through a websocket or internal API or by just launching it as a separate client without a node, farmer or wallet that talks directly to the others through an API. A lot of this work is already done, and it is simply a matter of repackaging. And then once we are doing this, I have a laundry list of ideas including changing how certificates are stored and issued to changing how they authenticate the client users.

But this is actually where I begin to step out of my lane. I can identify security issues with the application and make high level recommendations on how to architect it better. But I am not a developer or programmer. In order to fix it and develop a real Windows application that could be legitimately run in a datacenter or conscientious home network we would need some serious community involvement. The ROI isn’t there for the Chia Network team to develop and maintain a serious Windows client for serious Windows admins. And it likely never will be.

But this is an open-source project for a reason, and to be blunt – we don’t need them. Actually, we would need them, probably a lot, but we don’t need them to lead the project. What we need is a real developer willing to sit down and design a real Windows Server application with a roadmap and everything. This will take a lot of time, but it is important to me. So what I am going to do is put 1 XCH into a fund with the following address and implore everyone who wants a better Windows client to donate. I have a companion post coming to address the details, but basically, I want to incentivize the development of better Chia software. We got a better plotter thanks to Mad Max, now lets get a better client.

Contest Address: xch1hew8r5fw70fv6rlk5ur4axlsjzkl4d5uy4d6lj8fme3t5mvwuacq37kgff

Related

1 thought on “Some hard truths about the Chia Windows client – and an idea to fix it”

  1. Anonymous says:
    July 15, 2021 at 11:07 am

    Wish I had a coin to donate.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Advertisement

Recent Posts

  • Crypto is burning down – Chia seems fine
  • Chia CAT upgrade fiasco part 2 – Was I wrong?
  • WTF just happened?? CAT1 to CAT2 “upgrade”
  • The era of the Chia NFT is upon us
  • Chia Blockchain 1.4.0 released – NFTs and DIDs oh my
  • Discussion
  • Facts About Farmers
  • How-To
  • Information
  • News
  • pools
  • Security
  • Trademark
  • Trading
  • Uncategorized

Dark Mode Switch

©2021 The Chia Plot - Donate XCH / MRMT / SBX @ xch1p4440d6zwu9ryta2vx073lq2ge3s29d37kskz6t34jp085e8srjqnk0gcr
We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. By clicking “Accept All”, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent.
Cookie SettingsAccept All
Manage consent

Privacy Overview

This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience.
Necessary
Always Enabled
Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously.
CookieDurationDescription
cookielawinfo-checkbox-advertisement1 yearThe cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Advertisement".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-analytics11 monthsThis cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-functional11 monthsThe cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-necessary11 monthsThis cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary".
cookielawinfo-checkbox-others11 monthsThis cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other.
cookielawinfo-checkbox-performance11 monthsThis cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance".
JSESSIONIDsessionUsed by sites written in JSP. General purpose platform session cookies that are used to maintain users' state across page requests.
viewed_cookie_policy11 monthsThe cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. It does not store any personal data.
Functional
Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features.
CookieDurationDescription
na_id1 year 1 monthThis cookie is set by Addthis.com to enable sharing of links on social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter
na_rn1 monthThis cookie is used to recognize the visitor upon re-entry. This cookie allows to collect information on user behaviour and allows sharing function provided by Addthis.com
na_sc_e1 monthThis cookie is used to recognize the visitor upon re-entry. This cookie allows to collect information on user behaviour and allows sharing function provided by Addthis.com
na_sr1 monthThis cookie is set by Addthis.com. This cookie is used for sharing of links on social media platforms.
na_srp1 minuteThis cookie is used to recognize the visitor upon re-entry. This cookie allows to collect information on user behaviour and allows sharing function provided by Addthis.com
na_tc1 year 1 monthThis cookie is set by the provider Addthis. This cookie is used for social media sharing tracking service.
ouid1 year 1 monthThe cookie is set by Addthis which enables the content of the website to be shared across different networking and social sharing websites.
Performance
Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors.
CookieDurationDescription
d3 monthsThis cookie tracks anonymous information on how visitors use the website.
Analytics
Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc.
CookieDurationDescription
__gads1 year 24 daysThis cookie is set by Google and stored under the name dounleclick.com. This cookie is used to track how many times users see a particular advert which helps in measuring the success of the campaign and calculate the revenue generated by the campaign. These cookies can only be read from the domain that it is set on so it will not track any data while browsing through another sites.
_ga2 yearsThis cookie is installed by Google Analytics. The cookie is used to calculate visitor, session, campaign data and keep track of site usage for the site's analytics report. The cookies store information anonymously and assign a randomly generated number to identify unique visitors.
_gat_gtag_UA_199099757_11 minuteThis cookie is set by Google and is used to distinguish users.
_gid1 dayThis cookie is installed by Google Analytics. The cookie is used to store information of how visitors use a website and helps in creating an analytics report of how the website is doing. The data collected including the number visitors, the source where they have come from, and the pages visted in an anonymous form.
CONSENT16 years 4 months 5 daysThese cookies are set via embedded youtube-videos. They register anonymous statistical data on for example how many times the video is displayed and what settings are used for playback.No sensitive data is collected unless you log in to your google account, in that case your choices are linked with your account, for example if you click “like” on a video.
Advertisement
Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads.
CookieDurationDescription
advanced_ads_browser_width1 monthThis cookie is set by Advanced ads plugin.This cookie is used to measure and store the user browser width for adverts.
anj3 monthsNo description available.
CMID1 yearThe cookie is set by CasaleMedia. The cookie is used to collect information about the usage behavior for targeted advertising.
CMPRO3 monthsThis cookie is set by Casalemedia and is used for targeted advertisement purposes.
CMPS3 monthsThis cookie is set by Casalemedia and is used for targeted advertisement purposes.
CMRUM31 yearThis cookie is set by Casalemedia and is used for targeted advertisement purposes.
CMST1 dayThe cookie is set by CasaleMedia. The cookie is used to collect information about the usage behavior for targeted advertising.
DSID1 hourThis cookie is setup by doubleclick.net. This cookie is used by Google to make advertising more engaging to users and are stored under doubleclick.net. It contains an encrypted unique ID.
i1 yearThe purpose of the cookie is not known yet.
IDE1 year 24 daysUsed by Google DoubleClick and stores information about how the user uses the website and any other advertisement before visiting the website. This is used to present users with ads that are relevant to them according to the user profile.
KADUSERCOOKIE3 monthsThe cookie is set by pubmatic.com for identifying the visitors' website or device from which they visit PubMatic's partners' website.
KTPCACOOKIE1 dayThis cookie is set by pubmatic.com for the purpose of checking if third-party cookies are enabled on the user's website.
mc1 year 1 monthThis cookie is associated with Quantserve to track anonymously how a user interact with the website.
test_cookie15 minutesThis cookie is set by doubleclick.net. The purpose of the cookie is to determine if the user's browser supports cookies.
uid1 year 1 monthThis cookie is used to measure the number and behavior of the visitors to the website anonymously. The data includes the number of visits, average duration of the visit on the website, pages visited, etc. for the purpose of better understanding user preferences for targeted advertisments.
uuid3 monthsTo optimize ad relevance by collecting visitor data from multiple websites such as what pages have been loaded.
uuid23 monthsThis cookies is set by AppNexus. The cookies stores information that helps in distinguishing between devices and browsers. This information us used to select advertisements served by the platform and assess the performance of the advertisement and attribute payment for those advertisements.
VISITOR_INFO1_LIVE5 months 27 daysThis cookie is set by Youtube. Used to track the information of the embedded YouTube videos on a website.
YSCsessionThis cookies is set by Youtube and is used to track the views of embedded videos.
yt-remote-connected-devicesneverThese cookies are set via embedded youtube-videos.
yt-remote-device-idneverThese cookies are set via embedded youtube-videos.
Others
Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet.
CookieDurationDescription
__gpi1 year 24 daysNo description
adImpCountpastNo description
C3UID5 yearsNo description available.
C3UID-9245 yearsNo description
fc5 months 27 daysNo description available.
pfpastNo description
pxs5 months 27 daysNo description available.
SAVE & ACCEPT
Powered by CookieYes Logo